One of the most sensitive (and in some cases rightly so) areas of the military concerns awards and "qualification" badges. The awards generally held in highest esteem are those granted for actually facing down the enemy...so it seems that in the Mess in Mesopotamia there is yet another interesting dimension to the war, one that doesn't mean much to civilians, nor would it be worthy of much note, had it not happened now, given the candy-and-rose petal nature of the occupation.
It seems that the Army, which has an award called the Combat Infanty Badge (or “CIB”) has been reluctant to make the award to soldiers, regardless of rank who are not actually in an Infantry MOS even if they are deployed and fighting as Infantry.
Capt. Steve Gventer is still picking shrapnel out of his right shoulder. It became lodged there last month when a rocket-propelled grenade sailed over his head and exploded against a wall, splattering him with hot metal.
That attack came two weeks after an insurgent in Sadr City, the Baghdad slum, shot Gventer through his left calf with a machine gun.
Gventer's street fighting would appear to qualify him for one of the U.S. Army's most prestigious awards, the Combat Infantryman Badge. The award recognizes soldiers whose daily mission is to pursue the enemy, primarily on foot, and engage in close combat.
But Gventer won't get the award -- at least not under current rules. Normally a tank company commander, Gventer was retrained as an infantry officer before he was deployed. ....
...
But part of the fallout is an intense internal debate over who qualifies for the Combat Infantryman Badge, or CIB, and, more broadly, what constitutes an infantryman in a rapidly changing Army.
The award is "a divisive tool now," said Capt. Chuck Slagle, an infantry company commander who favors expanding the award's recipients to include non-infantry units. He and Gventer "do exactly the same thing," he said. "But because of this, we're separated."
Where this matters for soldiers who are a part of the career cadre is that once this is all over, the post-war Army will be influenced by those men (and women?) who are awarded a CIB, they most likely will be promoted over a non-CIB officer/enlisted who performed the same duties as someone awarded a CIB, like Capt's Slagle and Gvinter.
While I agree with the point about "diluting" the value an award, deserving soldiers should receive them now, and the staff weenies can argue about it later; it's a morale-buster in the long run and certainly not something worth costing unit cohesion or "good order and discipline".
As an aside, I found this comment sort of interestng:
From World War II through Vietnam, four out of five combat deaths were sustained by infantrymen, according to retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert H. Scales Jr., a historian. "Not soldiers and Marines, but infantrymen,"
I don't know about the numbers, and Gen Scales may be right, but he misses a point of honor among all the Marines I have had the honor of serving with: Every Marine is Rifleman. End of Story...Semper Fi.
posted by Jo Fish on 10.24.04 at 01:02 AM
Comments:
I value my CIB from Vietnam more than any other badge or medal I received. I was in country about three months when it was awarded. I know there were different criteria for enlisted and officer ranks. As a young Infantry Sergeant I came under fire or conducted ambush patrols many times before the award was made.
The CIB is one of those badges which distinguish between the Infantry and all other combat arms. Like the Combat Medics Badge it is mos specific. I believe that this honor is something which should be given only to those who served in combat in the capacity of an infantryman.
I never saw preferential treatment in promotions or assignments because of this badge. I did see a lot of respect for it. The CIB and 50 cents could get you a cup of coffee.
I agree wholeheartedly with the statement every Marine is a rifleman. The Marines, IMHO have always been pretty stingy in recognizing their troops with awards and decorations.
posted by: Lowell on 10.24.04 at 10:04 AM [permalink]
I agree with Lowell. The fact that I was awarded a CIB is secondary; it is a unique award, a recognition of service, duty and peril. To receive the award, one must have an infantry MOS and actually be serving in that MOS, i.e. in direct combat with an armed enemy.
To my knowledge, the rules governing this award are the same for officers as for EM. Hard cheese for CPT Gventer, but those are the current rules. Interesting side fact #1: West Point graduates in the top quarter (I believe) of their class can select their Branch of specialization. Many selected Armor because of the speed and shock cachet. Many now rue that choice, because it is true that promotion boards give weighted points for combat decorations when evaluating an officer or EM in the zone for promotion.
CPT Gventer might be qualified, after his infantry training to apply for a change of Branch.
Interesting side fact #2: It was the case, and probably still is, that General Officers are NOT eligible for this award. That cuts down significaantly on ticket-punching. To my knowledge, only one General Officer has ever been awarded the CIB. GEN Joseph "Vinegar Joe" Stillwell was awarded it by special Act of Congress while he was on his deathbed. This superb warrior had been clear throughtout his service in WWII that he considered this decoration more significant than all the Army awarded, except for the Medal of Honor. The legend is that he cried when it was pinned on his pillow.
posted by: Lurch on 10.24.04 at 11:29 AM [permalink]
Semi-OT, but as long as the CIB is the topic here: what's the difference between the CIB and the Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB)? I understand you have to get shot at to get the CIB; what's the qualification for the EIB?
I disagree. If you are deployed as infantry - you should be eligible. Designations like armor and infantry are becoming less and less meaningful in the army these days, because a soldier might deployed one way then another in the same tour. Yeah that makes for something of a bookkeeping problem, but it's the only way to be fair.
posted by: Geeno on 10.25.04 at 12:58 PM [permalink]
The EIB or Expert Infantryman's Badge is earned by an extremely high PT score and qualifying expert in a number of weapons. It also entails extensive land navigation skills and escape and evasion. The EIB is temporary and has to be re-earned periodically.
The CIB is awarded for facing the enemy in combat as an Infantryman, a number of times. Once awarded the CIB cannot be taken away.
BTW Geeno - like I said the CIB and CMB are MOS specific. It is true that when your unit is over run everyone reverts to infantrymen. That is simply a matter of survival. Choosing to serve as an Infantryman is different. If they were to relax the rules every REMF in the army would be putting themselves in for one.
posted by: Lowell on 10.25.04 at 04:47 PM [permalink]
I agree with Lowell and Len.
The CIB recognizes the fact that infantrymen volunteer for infantry MOSs nowadays. It also recognizes that those doing the most hazardous types of assaults will be infantry.
I also think there should be a combat action ribbon for the Army like that of the USMC and Navy, though.
posted by: klaatu on 10.25.04 at 08:02 PM [permalink]
I was in Armor, 4th Infantry Division, and in spite of the good natured ribbing exchanged between Infantry an Armor troops, we all believed that we all had Infantry as our secondary MOS. Cpt Gventer is doing the job and he should wear the CIB.
posted by: dave on 10.26.04 at 01:13 PM [permalink]
Marines are known for NOT handing out ribbons and combat awards at the drop of a cover (hat).
Correct also - every Marine is a rifleman.
Semper Fidelis
posted by: Barndog on 10.28.04 at 06:57 AM [permalink]
I have served as three years as an US Army infantryman (11B and 11H) rifleman, M60 machine gun, and TOW, and two years as a US Army tanker (11E, and 11E2R8), M60 main battle tank driver. I cannot speak for the Marines. Tankers are not infantryman. I think the CIB should be limited to infantry only. You are an infantryman if you attended the Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Benning, GA AND served in an infantry MOS (11B, 11C or 11H). That said, I do think that tankers, who do serve right in the thick of battle and not as just support troops, should be entilted to their own combat badge. If your carrer field would be in the very first wave on a modern-day Omahau Beach, you are a combat soldier.
This CIB controversy is an old story. I heard it over and over again during the Vietnam war, and the arguments haven't changed.
I think the key point is that the CIB is specifically for soldiers with infantry specialties, and in my opinion it should stay that way. Otherwise, what would it be? A cook or a pilot who helps man his perimeter at night and gets into a firefight, or some arbitrary number of firefights, gets a CIB?
There's a difference between being temporarily assigned to some duty that looks and feels like being an infantryman and signing up to be an infantryman forever.
I think those who want CIBs should become professional, full-time infantrymen. I flew a lot of hairy attack helicopter missions in support of them during the Vietnam war, and believe me, I never once begrudged them that CIB.
