Attention Virginians, Tom Davis (R-VA 11) is grandstanding on this

http://gotv.blogspot.com/2005/03/tom-davis-grandstanding-on-family.html

Attention Wisconsin voters, Republicans in your legislature are trying to take away your right to an Advanced Medical Directive-

"Legislation currently before the Wisconsin Senate allows doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other medical personnel who morally disagree with the guidelines regarding feeding and hydration tubes to ignore living wills and advance directives. The legislation already has passed the Republican-controlled Assembly and is likely to pass the Republican-controlled Senate."
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/369/

This isn't about politics. This is about a woman being starved to death. What is so hard to understand about that. She is still a living breathing person. She is not on a respirator or life support. Do you realize how cruel it is to allow someone to starve to death, that is why they give terminal cancer patients fluids when they are unable to eat or drink. Maybe if you and most in your party would realize the sancity of life you would understand. And please don't me that you know of value of life because you are a veteran. My uncle is a purple heart recipient of the Vietnam War and grandfather was a World War II Veteran. No one is trying to take away a Living Will this is a question of inhumane act

It is obscene to watch the politicians and "right-to-life" people circling above Terry Schiavo's head. Let the poor woman die! She has no quality of life, no cognitive function, no sense of pain or pleasure, this is not "life". It is living death. I applaud her husband's perseverance in this matter. I would hope that my husband would be as diligent. I intend to get a living will the next time I am out near our hospital. I will fill it out, have my husband fill one out, and my son, too. On the matter of the congress and the presidient becoming involved, it is odd to think that the party that wants to keep a low profile in peoples' lives, and pushes more and more onto the state is becoming so intimately involved on a federal level. To quote, "be afraid, be very afraid!" We are more and more controlled in this country, now they won't even let this woman die in peace. This is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.

Celeste -

You are right. This ISN'T about politics. This is a matter of family.

Take your happy, fascist, christian only on my terms ass and go the fuck away.

And take your Dobson ass-sucking politicians with you.

God wants to gather Terri to his bosom. Why are the republicans trying to thwart God's will, to tether her soul to this vale of tears?

Ask your parents what *they* would want, if they were in Terri's situation. Then remember the commandment about obeying them,
even when it hurts.

Christian only on my terms....wow and you call republicans the party of hate. This is about family. What about the facts that Terri had broken bones when she arrived at the hospital? Or does that not matter. This woman is living and breathing person. When God is ready to take her he will. NO ONE has the right to decide who lives or dies. He left her on the feeding tube until he was awarded the malpractice money. How about that. Oh and another thing I won't go the fuck away as you put it and no asshole like you can make me. How about you grow up and respect others opinions as you wish your own to be respected.....But then again you wouldnt be a democrat if you did that.

Well said Celeste. It always amazes me how civil conversation goes right down the toilet when someone feels a safe distance from you. Barndog, would you feel safer if we did not offer our opinions? Is this a sanctuary for liberalism? Please forgive my ignorance, as this is my first visit to this site. Personally, I fell it my duty to pay attention to both sides of an issue no matter where my ideologies lie. Thank you for the opportunity to be heard.

I am the executor for my cousin. If I were in similar situation, I would have a problem pulling the plug even it were against the written wishes of my cousin. I would let her live for another 5 years and re-evaluate then. It's not a matter of quality of life or following through with the wishes of my cousin, it is more to do with the urgency of the situation. In the Schiavo case, there is no urgency. So I say don't pull the plug.

Celeste, care to share your feelings on the death penalty?

I've had to deal with a physican who pulled my dying 2 year old Son off his DNR order. The asswipe I refer too had just came off vacation, and did so while my ex-wife and I ate. It took 4 armed security guards to pull me off him, and only then after I realized that to crush his throat, would only quite possibly land me where I was working at the time - a maximum security prison.

Yes. I get highly emotionally charged over this issue, and will continue to do so. Never, I repeat NEVER in my life will any government that I have honorably served 15 years of my life, be in charge of the end-life of any member of my family.

Maybe you should try being adopted, being abused by a drunken asshole, and then have your first born die of cancer - come and talk to me then. We might meet on the same level. But, in your small and cloistered world, I seriously doubt you could even conjecture something like this ever happening, right? I've fought for everything I've ever had, including my self respect. And I have all of it and then some. You want to preach - join the seminary.

Care to walk in my shoes? Care to experience the pain and suffering I have?

I didn't think so.

I have no qualms with God. Never have and never will. But, for you to claim that you or anyone else know's what God's will is or might be, is completely delusional.

p.s. I am an Independent and always have been. Run your labels in your ass too. You seem to have an issue of claiming to know more than what is truly real. Therein lies the entirety of the problem. Just like Terri.

Semper FI

2nd p.s. Always remember - don't piss off a Marine. You will lose everytime.

It seems to me that we have all lost sight of what Terry Schiavo wants. She told her husband she did not want to live this way, and told friends, too, who also testified that that was what she wanted. I think it is selfish of her parents and others to try to keep her alive! I am glad that the courts have so far kept to the legal facts, and are ruling using empirical ideas instead of superstition and selfishness. I concur that the politicians are going to permit the courts to take the fall for this, and then blast the judicial system for being too "liberal". Yi, yi, yi, what a country we have made for oursleves! I have always heard that a people gets the government they deserve. Ouch.

Perhaps there should be guidliens to go along with the trauma diagnosis/ illness symptoms for specific instances and a window of time is placed upon that to deny/waive the initial decision.

It would require a group of practicing physicians to do, with attorneys to make the wording feasable.

An impact assessment/special commission. keep Frist the fuck away from it.

The time trained professionals would generally concur that windows of recovery may indeed be in place for specefic times up to consent of attorney privilige.

Then someone married couldn't just pull a plug on someone they were planning to divorce, or soemone with waived rights would not be misdiagnosed and put into such category.

Think of three possible diagnoses that arrive within a consensus range.

An aunt of mine discussed this with me, scheduled to donor for her sister a kindey. This expedited the decision after her massive stroke. She said she wanted to be of sound mind or would be comfortable with passing on.

Three people live today due to her decision. This should be done for the Shiavo case. She could pass life on to a person of sound mind and win back some of what she has lost for someone else.

1. Why can't she be manually fed or given liquids - why no food or liquids at all?
Taking the feeding tube out is one thing, denying all food and liquids by any means is murder isn't it?
2. Why did it take years before her 'husband' said she did not want to live this way?
3. Her friends said she was considering a divorce...certainly an indication that the relationship dynamics were in question,
4. Why can't guardianship be given to her parents so her 'husband' can go on with what he has already determined to be 'his own life'....another woman...2 children...engagement....common-law marriage (By the way, how did he file federal taxes?...joint or single and who was listed as the spouse and dependants?
5. What message is this giving to children today?
6. Could this issue possibly have contributed to the Minnesota school killings?
7. How do people with brain damage view this and what do they think? Are they next?
8. Why has the ADA been so silent? Why is no one calling them or why are they not on the news with statements?
9. What precedence will this now set…anyone who has a ‘loved one’ in ICU or on feeding or other life sustaining means could now say, ‘it was not the wish of this person to be this way, so pull the plug’…let me get the inheritance…let me stop the expenses…forget what the person wants…..whatever
10. Why can’t President Bush just ‘pardon her’?

Terry Schiavo should be allowed to die with dignity. What I mean by this is that let the woman die in peace. It's quite torturous to give her the feeding tube, then take it out for a couple of days, then put it back in. I'll tell you what, let her die. My wife has told me that she doesn't want to be resuscitated. So, I would do everything in my power to give her her wish in that situation. What I have done differently than her husband is that I have talked to my wife's parents let them hear it for themselves, that way there's no confusion. Another fact is that her husband is the executor of her estate, thus the parents(or anyone else for that matter) do NOT have any rights to say whether she lives or dies. This case only further proves that there is not much of a separation betweeen church and state(For all of you christian conservatives, who by the way don't get this concept, that means that religious bias stays out of government decisions). Our founding fathers recognized that it was necessary to have that separation. Why don't the bible thumpers?

No one needs to talk to me about watching someone you love live or die. I lost my mom 3 years ago from cancer...and that is the worst possible way to watch someone you love die. But it was God's will. Second of all my father was a raging alcoholic, so don't go there with me. I have had trials and tribulations in my short life, and I have wondered every step of the way, why God has chosen me to go through them all but there is a reason. This isn't about a court intervention...there is NO LIVING WILL! He waited after being awarded her malpractice money to decide she said she did not want to live like that. Have you seen pictures of her after this first happened and she was receiving treatment....she could have been healed...who knows. I am not saying that you do not have the right to decide if you want heroic measures taken....but to starve someone to death after 15 years you think that is HUMANE? Please. And like I said I don't care if I piss you off or not.. Marine or not. My uncle is a Vietnam Veteran for God's sake and my grandfather a World War II vet. Do you honestly think I am scared of you? No. Sorry doesnt work that way with me.

And I just wanted to add one more thing...I dare you assume that because they have a different opinion than you that they have led a perfect life. You are beyond ignorant in your arguments. I am sorry if you have had a harsh life but so have and I alot of others. And the only one who is pretending to know more than they actually do is you Sir.

As for your comment about me trading lives with you because apparantely you think mine has been a bowl of peaches...are you really that ignorant...Just because I disagree with you think I havent had a hard life....that shows how mature you really are. Second I believe you are the one that You seem to have an issue of claiming to know more than what is truly real, you are the one that assumes to know to much. And I all have learned about Terri I found on several sites...its call not jumping to conclusions. You may want to try it same day it may save you face.

Michael Shiavo is NOT doing this for money. Mr Schaivo was offered a sum in excess of 1 million dollars by some media mogul to allow Terri's parents to take custody of her parents. Your argument that he only wanted her to die after she received the malpractice money is preposterous. In fact, Mr. Schaivo has said that he would offer the remainder of the money to charity after Terri dies. The only thing that that money has been going to is lawyer fees and medical bills. How much do you think is left??? I would guess that there is less than 100k left. just an estimate. I would think that if he were doing it for money Mr. Scahivo would have taken the million dollars over the, at most, 100k. If he were doing this for the money don't you think he would have wanted her dead before 1998? That's when he filed legal action to have the feeding tube removed. You do the math. 8 years of medical bills really would have taken a big chunk out of that 1.5 million that was awarded to them in the malpractice suit. The fact of the matter is that he is NOT doing it for money. Check your facts!

Go to Terri Schiavo website and go to myths about Terri and there you will see. I have checked my facts. Let me ask you something if you knew your wife/spouse what ever didnt not want heroic measures or a feed tube why authorize one in the first place. The fact of is plain and simple whether you see it or not they are starving her to death...maybe one day you will be the one that is being denied food or water and then maybe you'll realize how cruel and inhumane this is. Michael Schiavo is a cruel monster....on and by the way just to add a light to this. My best friend is a die hard liberal (yea know it is hard to believe but it is true) her father was on life support for 10 days after being hit by a drunk driver...she has the God given sense to know that this is murder...

Celeste - you sound like a conservative kind of gal ("my best friend is a die-hard liberal"). If all your facts come from the Terri Schiavo website, then you're cheating yourself of facts. Go check out John Cole, one of your fellow conservative travelers, and read his take on this. With the entire internet at your disposal, and tools like Wikipedia and Google, if you can do no better for sourcing information than a website put up by christo-fascist whackos filled with misleading half-truths, then you're being intellectually dishonest.

I am not being intellectually dishonest trust me I have read other sites and to claim might I add (without knowing me) is ignorant and with basis. I personally do not care what someone says based on their political beliefs, if the Republicans were against this I would still believe Terri has a right to humane treatment. To me this is not about politics and if it is to you than you need to reexamine what is going on in your mind. As for the Christo fascist whackos remark..Yes I am a Christian and if Terri would have had a living will and would be on life support I would fully support the plug being pulled. I suppose you think all us Christians are ignorant and so on that is not true and is basically ignorant on your part. And I might I add I believe the site is maintained by her parents...but let me guess they are bad evil people because they love their daughter. I believe that starving someone is cruel and inhumane, why if Michael claims this was Terris wishes did he state after her collapse he did not know of her wishes, what did he suffer from amnesia at the time. You assume that you are right and I am wrong because I am conservative. Which is basically stupid

By the way Celeste, my source is Wikipedia.com, a generally unbiased source. Your source is Terrisfight.com an extremely biased source. Who do you think is telling a better version of the truth.

By the way Celeste, my source is Wikipedia.com, a generally unbiased source. Your source is Terrisfight.com an extremely biased source. Who do you think is telling a better version of the truth?

You know Celeste, my Mother died from cancer too. She found she had breast cancer when I was a freshman in high school. I changed her bandages and drove her to radiation and chemo treatments in leiu of basketball & football practices. Then about 3 months before I shipped off the the Marines, she had a massive stroke, which left her paralized. That happened in front of my eyes. And yes, my stepdad was a screaming, raging alcoholic. Oh, and while I'm on the cancer subject - so did my grandmother - 2 months after my Grandfather.

I was also there within minutes of my Grandfather dying on Good Friday from a massive heart attack at lunch. Not to mention the Marines and civilians I've assisted as a medivac crew chief.

Life sucks and it isn't pretty. In fact, quite often - I didn't think it was going to get any better. It did. But, if you stop by and try to be the persecutor, and persecuted - you're not going to get a great deal of sympathy around here. We are adults, many of us have seem ugly death, and understand the difference. To assume otherwise, only makes your case sink like a lead balloon. (I've personally never been in combat, but you don't have to go to combat to watch Marines and others die in service to this nation)

I don't claim to know everything - and never have. That seems to be the position you seem to have adopted. I've had my travels to hell and back, and believe me thats plenty.

Your 'facts' escape rational thought processes. And these 'facts' have no basis in logic, simply because you use them out of any contextual basis to the premise. Ad-hominem attacks on her husband will only get you a lawsuit. Funny, because these purported 'facts' - seem to have come out - only in the past few days. Just like the rest of the increasingly heated rhetoric. Probally in Sciafe, Coors & Mellon funded, and Randall Terry-approved press releases.

I know how the radical right works. Save your breath.

So, you grandfather & father were Veterans. Great. So were mine. And many of my uncles, and cousins were too. Most of them Marines.

But, what did YOU do?

First of all I am not the one who stated that I would not want to walk in your shoes...you are the one who assumed that I had never faced anything. Second my grandfather died of Colon Cancer the same as my mom. Third you are the one who stated dont piss off a Marine you'll never win, that is why I brung up my family memembers and trust me those are not the only two. I am not looking from sympathy from the like of you I dont need I sit around and felt sorry for myself all the time I wouldnt be who I am today or would I have what I have today. And the comment about the radical right...is way uncalled for I guess we could be like the maniac left and only listen to those who agree with us and everyone after that are stupid and immature etc, right. Yea that is what I want to be. You are the one who did the assuming and you can't stand the fact that no matter what I dont care what you think and I dont think it is right to starve someone to death. Oh and I have been to other sites by the way and I have formed my own opinion as has my best friend and my family members and to starve someone is wrong and cruel and if you dont realize than my God be with you. Barndog, you would are the type of person that I try to distance myself with you come across all knowing all superior and think that you are the only one who has every experienced life and knows all about. Well guess what you don't. And no matter what you or anyone elese thinks of me, (to be honest I really dont care) I am who I am. I do not hate anyone I do not disrespect anyone and I am probably one little girl that you do not want to cross. Oh and barndog I have dont plenty in my life to benefit the good of others, no I didnt not join the army and I did not make the commen about my uncle and grandfather to sound like a badass, I made it because you started with the dont piss of the marines just proving my point it that it doesnt matter.

And one more thing you claim these facts just appeared, there are documents from a couple years back that claim the same things...and you might want to ask Michael Schiavo how come after it happened to Terri he stated that he didnt know her wishes then after 7 years he did. Please.

There is NO life that has little value. If all we are hearing about Michael Schiavo is true, Terry received no help, because he did not allow it. My question is this; Why wouldn't Michael Schiavo allow the latest medical technology to be used to determine her true status? Her own nurses testified she could talk in the beginning, and communicate with them. Her husband allowed no one to help her. That isn't love, or concern. Thats a man who wants to be rid of a burden. He certainly won't need my judgement or yours. This will come back to haunt him, and ,unfortunately, it will haunt us, too. We will reap what he has sewn.Life means less and less all the time to the courts. Our Supreme Court is the biggest disappointment for this country. Our justice system failed Terry, and sadly, it is failing us. Even a criminal has more consideration---M.

I think everyone should agree

i think teryy parents should make the choice weather she live i think they should put the feeding tube back in her
her husband want her to die i think so he can get money we can save terry!!!!

i think teryy parents should make the choice weather she live i think they should put the feeding tube back in her
her husband want her to die i think so he can get money we can save terry!!!!

i think teryy parents should make the choice weather she live i think they should put the feeding tube back in her
her husband want her to die i think so he can get money we can save terry!!!!

god is keeping terry alive there is a reason she is still living without food or fluids 4 a whole week god want her to live for a purpose why will her husband want her to die come on!!! he trying to get money he can care less about terry her parents want her to live place yourself in there shoes think about it we can save terry!!!!

At the risk of feeding a troll, "mya" how much money do you think is left? No fair going to google or other sources, answer from your own knowledge...

Have they even reached a

Mary are you serious? or perhaps delerious? Our justice system has not failed us. In fact, it has done its job. It's job in a nutshell is to interpret the laws of the land. Don't believe me just open up a textbook from any 5th grader and it will tell you that. The justice system interpreted that Michael Schaivo was the executor of her estate(fact) and that he should be the one to decide(fact). All this willy-nilly crap about how the parents should have custody is all a political game. This is also known as Republican bull****!!

Oh and by the way, Mya, I hate to break it to you, but God wanted Terry dead 15 years ago. It's these damn heathenous doctors that keep screwing it up.

Let's assume hypothetically that Terri could get better(that's a real stretch). What value could she bring to society? The only thing I can think of is for her to be a Wal-Mart greeter. Other than that she would just be a drain to her family, and in the future a drain on society. Like it or not, that's the way it is.

I have become ashamed of being a registered Republican. I am probably more accurately a Libertarian in my heart. But as a woman who loves God but does not presume to know the direct will of God for a personal fact, I am stunned how much hatred is spewed in God's name. Terri...suffered from an eating disorder. It was truly the cause of her loss of life 15 years ago. Her body lives, but her cortical function is gone...and why? This should be a lesson to us that a vital, vibrant woman would literally kill herself by bulimia to look better. Everyone loses sight of the true tragedy of the case. What is more tragic is that the family has become so totally caught up in this...that they have lost sight of the fact that she loved Michael and they always believed he loved her...until they lost sight of reality. She is never coming back. They need to let go for their own sake and hers. She lost her battle for life years ago when she allowed herself to become critical ill from an eating disorder. Perhaps no one sees the irony in that. However, the Republicans who say that those of us who think she should be let go are part of a "culture of death"...do not know what is in our hearts. I cry for the sadness of what is going on...I sympathize with all involved including her husband who has been vilified without merit. Let her go to God and have the joy that left her years ago. Did her husband start another relationship...many years after her death as a person...yes, but how many of us would not do the same. She is gone and he knows it, stop making him the devil and see him as a person doing the best he can...not perfect, but not evil either.

I can no longer watch or listen to conservative commentators whom I feel have betrayed me, her, and all Republicans who don't think that dying with dignity when the brain has ceased is cruel or immoral.

Goodnight and God bless.

Virginia, I agree wholeheartedly! I am a freethinker, so no thoughts of what "god" wants enters my thinking, but it is very sad when a poor lost soul like Terri is used as the fulcrum to pivot public policy. shame on the politicians! I have hated this whole thing. My father-in-law died several years ago at 85 after a long battle with emphysema. He was able to tell the doctors "enough!" He died after a few days of being taken off all meds, food and water, had only a morphine drip. But the key idea here is that he requested his physician to do this. Terri has not had that luxury. I think this is a lesson to us all to have living wills, and to talk to our families about what we want in the end. I already know what I want, and so should everyone. It seems that today the parents of Terri have finally exhausted all their options, and the poor thing is finally going to be permitted her release. I hope she finds peace.

there is a difference between allowing someone to die and making them die. if you take away food & water you are making them die. this is not a "right to die" issue. Terri was not dying. most people giving their testimonials about how they had to remove their loved ones from life support, their situation was not like Terri's. their loved ones were not alive for **15 YEARS**, AND THEN, one day decide to withold food & water from them. they probably made the choice withing the first 48 hour or a week, at most. they didn't allow their loved ones to live *15 YEARS*, and then stopped feeding them one day. she was not on life support, she wasn't dying. Terri was living. she was not ambulanced into an emergency room last night with her vitals slipping & being kept alive on machines. she has been living the way a lot of mentally challenged people live throughout this world, with their parents taking care of them, which her mother was doing. She also is not required to "get better" or improve. There are mentally handicapped people across this world who will never advance past, say age 5 or 6. technically they are not "getting better", but we don't stop feeding them do we? If it was Terri's wish to die, why wasn't it done immediately or soon after the accident? why wait 7 years, as Michael did, to BEGIN to say it is now Terri's wishes to die? Even if you claim he was trying to get treatment for her in those 7 years, would you allow her mom to take care of her daughter for 7 years, loving, dressing & comforting her daughter, for 7 years & then claim Terri wanted to die...how merciless is that? If you want to be merciful, you do it soon after the "accident", not 7 years! Terri was living, & could have lived a long time more, but her life was taken from her...she was not allowed to die, because she wasn't dying. she was made to die..take food from any of us & we will die also....

Terri's death is in no way closure for her family, the Schindlers. It is the BEGINNING of the worst pain & suffering, because they know their loved one was killed for no good reason.

For your information - Death begins the healing process.
Look up the 4 stages of grief and grieving.

I love how selective "right-to-white-lifers" are. Carla Iyer's ridiculous claims are gospel to them, but Michael Schiavo's words that Terri herself said she would never want to be in a vegetative state mean nothing.
She's going to die because its a family decision and the law allows for that. May God have patience with the arrogant and proud Christian Right, who claim to do God's job for Him.
If they cared so much about life they'd have something to say about the Texas Futile Care Law. If Terri lived in Gov. George Bush's Texas she'd have been dead no later than 1999.
"Sanctity of life" says one, who probably also supports the death penalty and cluster bombing populated Iraqi neighborhoods. Stop squirming, hypocrites. Obey the law and give Terri the diginity you never had.

This post I just read almost made me laugh:

Terri's death is in no way closure for her family, the Schindlers. It is the BEGINNING of the worst pain & suffering, because they know their loved one was killed for no good reason.
posted by: angela on 03.27.05 at 02:52 AM [permalink]

Their "loved one" was practically dead already, not killed. This is definitely not murder. I am glad that Terri is finally going to be able to die. Finally, the christian right get dealt a blow that they deserve. You guys can't override the law and get away with it every time....I love it!! I was starting to lose hope.

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