It's funny, but I have some good friends who are Republican. We have, in the past, have had some good lively debate over wine and cheese or dinner, but these past 4 years a good portion of these friends have been appalled at what is happening to our country. (They are the atheistic or non Christian financially fiscal anti-big government sort) There a a couple that have become the hatefilled "you're with us or against us" variety.

Let's just say, we haven't been breaking bread together for awhile. It simply isn't the same. Yes, there ARE Republicans out there who are appalled and are finally beginning to voice their displeasures. But, I don't know if our country can ever get over the "us vs. them" mentality that has infiltrated everything from friendly dinner parties to political parties.

no, we are not all americans. george bush deserted his military unit, and never worked a day in his life. you can't get more unamerican than he is.

Like magic, some issues have dissappeared: that Bush lied about the WMD, Rice, Cheney and Powell lied about the WMD and sexed up the threat that Iraq posed to the U.S. or even the middle-east. The rallying cry now is that dispite all the lies, despite the deaths of our troops based on those lies, despite the deaths of around 50,000 innocent Iraqis; Bush is bringing democracy to the ENTIRE middle east.
The wing-nuttery isn't isn't just wrong, they're delusional. How can you have a rational debate with a member of the asylum.
Example: In Jordan, a semi-democracy or semi-dictatorship, depending on your point of view, is somewhat an american ally. Women that are raped in Jordan are generally blamed for the rape and are still in some cases stoned to death. Actions on the part of the the neocon-artists to stop this practice? ZERO.
The neocons biggest failure in their worldview is the failure of ideas; how to get beyond perpetual war and war profiteering and bring "The Enlightenment" to the middle east, you do that with cultural exchange, economic incentives, making america energy independent,etc; not at the point of a gun.
The neocons put Saddam in power and the former Shah of Iran; we have a terrible track record in the middle east and Bush has guaranteed a new generation of Muslims that mistrust and hate the West. And with Rice going around telling the new lie about North Korea, the world is just snickering at BushCo like the kids do at crazy uncle Fred at Thanksgiving dinner. In four short years the Bush Whackies have destroyed america's credibility.

It's hard to begin talking when there are such large intractable issues. And the reason why they are intractable is that Bush has made them so. His strategy (Rove's, really) is to sharply divide the electorate and make sure he has the bigger half. And the differences are not superficial: they cut to the essence of how one believes a government should operate. I think the basis of any discussion has to be a very clear-eyed exposition of the deep-seated differences in a nonconfrontational way, but it ain't gonna be easy.

Tell 'em to sign up and put their mouth where our money is- Oilraq.

Simple nuff.

If they are not hardliners, and have misgivings, remind them of Teddy Roosevelt, the trustbuster who was a Conservationist.

That is where Conservatism got its start. He was anti-big business and ran for third party office after leaving the Republicans.

His legacy is the one real Conservatives follow. A determinant individualist. Not a stereotyping, labeling social idealogue.

As for balanced budgets, the Clenis(tm) had more to do with that than Gingrich, who used a media campaign to paint self as reform after the fact. The republicans shut down the Government in an attempt to tank the economy and weaken Clinton's standing for impeachment. The neocons opposed true balance and shifted the tax burden in the process to those who make the least whenever possible.

The dictionary defines republicans as against reform or change. Bush is using dramatic reform of security and individual rights(patriot act). Bush's reforms are the opposite of republican core values in terms of procedure.

His domestic policies are rollbacks of progress and a return to robber baron days so even those are "anti-reform" in the classic sense. He still calls it otherwise.

He is a robber baron run amok. But in naming the crass policy after reform and clear skies or healthy forests he has engaged in a most dangerous form of dialogue, Orwellian in nature.

Find comparisons to use. They dropped the major pollutant classification to claim cleaner air and water yet have increased the most dangerous toxins exposure to our land.

It would be like claiming success for calling beer 'sobriety salve', allowing the drinking to continue, and chasing it with harder whiskey. All on his kid's tab, with a big deficit. And no tip for the bartender.

And if they harp over and over on the Clenis(tm) remind them he was a pragmatist. he did some reforms, and even underwent some strong foreign policy intervention in southeast europe to keep a big customer of ours stable. Gingrich was doing the same thing to a worse extent , moved his girlfiend in on his sick wife whom he divorced, and then left that newlywed for a staffer/page ah la Lewinski.

You don't ask you doctor who she/he's been fucking. You want the best, especially going under the knife. You don't stop cheering for your favorite sports team until you are sure every player is not sleeping around.

Why does Clinton get judged for that when Ronnie was Mr. Hollywood? Ahnold anyone?

All of this is digression. Where to concede- balanced budgets and paygo. This is something most everyone can agree upon.

The way to a man's heart is though his wallet. People have to account for money as a pillar of existence in scale economies. Find ways to win people over in this regard.Everyone can agree on a fair price, value is value.

I can discuss C+ Augustus (great name there) with no Repukes. The man makes me physically ill. There is one guy I do talk about the Huckster-in-Chief, but this guy is really reasonable about it.

1. Timely
   
2. Strategery
   
3. Webb wins
   
4. Huh?
   
5. Bunnypants in Bagdad
   
6. Outage
   
7. Filthy Lucre Watch
   
8. Playing the numbers
   
9. My letter to Countdown
   
10. Jefferson's Nigerian Scams