The only willful ignorance is your not knowing the Geneva Conventions to start with. They pertain to uniformed soldiers fighting under the flag of a nation-state, not terrorists in civilian clothes fighting for a terrorist organization that targets civilians.

And just as you wish that Saddam was still in power, why do you always wish the worst of US soldiers?

Bean, my "ignorance" of the Geneva Convention? Here's a clue...what I learned of the Geneva Convention I learned in a little school you most likely never had the pleasure of attending since you weren't Combat Aircrew or a SEAL. The US Navy's SERE school. A mean-ass motherfucker of a place.

Even former military JAG flag officers are decrying the 1600 Crew's casual contempt for the GC. Admittedly, not all combatants wear uniforms, but mistreatment of prisoners is just wrong. On the sad day that we are in a war where our opponents wear uniforms and march in straight lines and caputure our troops, where do we get the moral authority to demand humane treatment of our POWs by the opposing force?

It may not meet the republican macho standard to hold out minimally decent treatment to detainees, but when even John McCain, whose nose is now so far up Preznit Torture All's ass that it's a new and undefined shade of brown, says that we need to check these excesses perhaps it's time to leave the macho at the door and think longer term than just administering a "feel good" beating to a random "haji" or two.

And seriously, why do you seem to believe that I dislike soldiers? Because I want them to behave honorably and not as you would have them behave, like recently evicted trailer-trash with a handgun and a hangover?

Gimme a fucking break.

It's not my point to condone abusing prisoners. It's immoral and stupid. My point is that you imply al Queda and Taliban types are covered by the Geneva Conventions. They are not.

The alternative to holding Bush accountable for the prisoner abuse is blaming it all on the soldiers. That's not supporting our troops, Bean, and I don't accept it. American soldiers behave honorably unless they're poorly led.

Actually, I think a fairly good case could be made for Taliban pre-invasion to have been afforded the protections of the GC, since they comprised a good part of the standing Army of Afghanistan. That alone should have granted them the status of POWs, IMHO.

Al-Qaeda may be a different story...but what value is there in mistreating them? A few of the top-tier AQ members are still running around out there, and no amount of beating and torturing low-level 'soldiers' is going to be an assurance of finding them. How long do we keep them in custody, and how long do we keep physically abusing them and ourselves by proxy by allowing the fear of something happening to override our better judgement and nature?

On 9/12 the world stood with us against Al-Qaeda, but the mistreatment and macho-bullshit hypocrisy displayed by the 1600 Crew have done nothing to make our case for trying to chase down and find AQ members who are still trying to hurt us and everyone they don't like or agree with. Or am I missing something here?

Is Osama in Terre Haute waiting for the needle? No, and beating his driver in GITMO will bring that day no closer. Or am I missing something?

That's an odd quibble, Bean. You admit the administration's policy is "immoral and stupid," yet you seem to be more upset about Jo's reading of the Geneva Convention. You seem to be more concerned with criticizing Democrats than you are with making sure this country is safe and secure.

The Korean fracis was never a declared war and our guys who got captured were tortured and brain washed. Vietnam was never a congress approved war and our guys who got captured were tortured. Most of the vietmease never wore a uniform with stripes and insignia so were they an enemy army?, I think so. I don't recall anyone on our side being charged with torture of the vietnamese. The Melie incident was not torture, it was a squad runamouck.
The american military fightening man is not one who condones torture. The mercenaries hired by the DOD and the CIA to do the black ops and psyops are the guys out there engaged in those activities and they use any means they think will get results.Those people are used so that there can be deniability and immunity from being charged with war crimes, because as civilians they are supposdly out of the juridiction of the US governments authority and being civilians they are not a party to the Geneva Convention. I know it's hogwash but that is what the pentagon uses to claim that It's not their fault and their hands are tied by international law. It is all a bunch of crap. War is war, no matter what the enemy wears in combat, whether it is a pair of black pajamas,a bandolear of rice with a salted prune seed for flavor or a diaper held on the head with a mitsubishi fan belt and armed with a machetti,an AK47,or a M16 with a grenade launcher, when you are fighting one of those people you are at war and they are soldiers. Torture will only get you what you want to hear, and if you act on it you will most likely be misdirected or misled which could cost you your life. It would be more humane to just shoot the enemy than to stoop to the level of a goon akin to a Geobbles,or Mengalea of Natzi fame or even a Saddam Hussane. What may keep an American soldier from being tortured if captured is the knowledge that when the enemy looses the victor will try the leaders with war crimes and they will be hanged or executed by firing squad ala Choweschewe.

1. Timely
   
2. Strategery
   
3. Webb wins
   
4. Huh?
   
5. Bunnypants in Bagdad
   
6. Outage
   
7. Filthy Lucre Watch
   
8. Playing the numbers
   
9. My letter to Countdown
   
10. Jefferson's Nigerian Scams